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000208_icon-group-sender _Mon Oct 4 12:39:15 1999.msg
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Received: (from root@localhost)
by baskerville.CS.Arizona.EDU (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id MAA10026
for icon-group-addresses; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:39:01 -0700 (MST)
Message-Id: <199910041939.MAA10026@baskerville.CS.Arizona.EDU>
From: gep2@terabites.com
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 13:13:51 -0500
Subject: Any File System for Icon Yet?
To: blakec@pacbell.net, icon-group@optima.CS.Arizona.EDU
Errors-To: icon-group-errors@optima.CS.Arizona.EDU
Status: RO
> I have downloaded, installed, and done some little
programs in Icon for Windows. I find that the documentation
that comes with the package is missing library routines
that are actually present; that is, it doesn't document them.
The free manual from
<http://www.toolsofcomputing.com/freesoftware.htm>
documents some missing routines, like xencode() and
xdecode(), and they work.
I haven't used (specifically) Icon for Windows, although I've worked with the
command-line version to a fair degree. Others here will certainly know more
about it, but I'll offer at least some observations...
> I find no routines to pluck one element out of the middle of a list, or insert
one in. Are there such routines?
Perhaps not, since those functions are really pretty trivial (you can use
subscript ranges to specify sublists, making that kind of thing a simple
expression).
> Would I get documentation of the if I got the book?
Dunno which book in particular you're referring to. The book I have and use,
'The Icon Programming Language' is a very complete description of the basic
language.
> At $35 a student like myself has to find out whether Icon has enough library
routines to support real programming problems before I buy it.
That, of course, depends entirely upon what kind of "real programming problems"
you intend to tackle with it.
One serious missing thing, for business type programming, is any kind of
indexed-sequential file system. (If there is such by now, I'm not aware of it).
On the other hand, I'm not aware of ANY general-purpose programming language
which has ALL of every kind of support routine that anyone is likely to ever
need, already built-in...
> There is no mention of any file system in downloaded
documentation. To work on persistent data I have
to write a whole list out with xencode() and read it in
with xdecode().
There are other ways to import and export lists. In general, I think that Icon
is better equipped for this than most other programming languages are.
In SNOBOL4/SPITBOL (predecessor languages to Icon) there is a SAVE() function
which allows the entire workspace (program and data) to be written to disk for
reloading later, and that's a way to instantly save (and later restore) even
very complex data structures without having to develop a separate
importable/exportable disk-file-based format for them.
> I read in the Dec. 1, 1998 Icon Newsletter the article titled "Database
Connectivity": "Work is beginning at UT San Antonio, with generous support from
the National Library of Medicine, on a high-level database interface to Icon.
The initial implementation will emphasize Windows Icon ...".
> Is this done yet? If not, is there even a primitive file system available,
with a B-tree index method and data file access routines?
With the increasing emphasis on multi-user transaction processing, it's perhaps
true that it's becoming more appropriate and desirable to provide a more general
interface to an external SQL (or other) database system... rather than trying to
keep the whole database system within the individual program.
> Icon is a nice language; very powerful!
I couldn't agree more!!! Despite the fact that for my own personal use, I find
SNOBOL4/SPITBOL (which has many of the same concepts, although a very different
overall look) to be a very attractive alternative. I end up using S*BOL much
more than Icon. NT SPITBOL produces true .EXE files, compiles and executes VERY
quickly, reliably handles exceedingly large amounts of data, and is very robust.
It also provides for the eval() and code() functions which are missing from
Icon (allowing you to extend the program and reference variables symbolically in
expressions at runtime).
Anyhow, Clint is quite active on this list, and will surely know more about the
status of Icon for Windows... good luck!
Gordon Peterson
http://web2.airmail.net/gep2/
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